In the history of mankind, many republics have risen, have flourished for a less or greater time, and then have fallen because their citizens lost the power of governing themselves and thereby of governing their state. TR

Wh3

Sunday Open Thread – September 8, 2013

113 thoughts on “Sunday Open Thread – September 8, 2013”

  1. The question the talking heads of the Sunday meet the press shows didn’t ask is why the WhiteHouse sent out MrMcDonough, Obama’s Chief of Staff, and not Susan Rice, his National Security Advisor.

    As it was an attempt to legitimize MrO’s call for action, McDonough’s talking points and evasions fell far short of convincing even CandyCrowley who shocked this audience by playing a anti-bombing ad produced by the President’s own “MoveOn.org”.
    MrO might want to think twice about appearing on every news channel to answer questions about his red-line solutions.

    1. Will someone please comment on the Sunday morning talk shows – let those of us who cannot watch them know what vomit was spewed by the participants. (Sorry for the graphic description – I am sick of all of this and need to vent. Better than profanity and name calling – right?!?!)

      1. Without being flippant, I’m sure you’ve heard it all before. I didn’t hear anything new, other than there is a rumor that MrO might delay everything and wait for the UN to say something.
        The pros are worried about the President’s “credibility”, and the cons are worried that he doesn’t have a “credible” plan.

        1. Re. the UN — from what I know and have heard, sparse and poorly documented — the UN can determine if chemical weapons were used and presumably therefore the kind of chemical weapons, but not who used them. The rub is, I have also heard that it is possible to determine by markings and other such investigation that it is possible to source and determine who used them. But, the UN will not involve itself in that.

          All that being said, the Security Council will not move in any direction that will be “helpful” to Obama. Moreover, since when does the UN determine the US military action. Perhaps in concert but not singularly.

          Again, moving with the weakest of knowledge, I also understand that without UN alliance and no consent from Congress, if Obama acts alone, then he is truly on dangerous ground, a place he seemingly does not wish to be.

          Therefore, once again for Barack, any compadre in the storm is needed, in the event he acts, it does not go well, and he needs to lay the blame somewhere.

          Like I said, this is as I understand it, weakly.

          1. The rebels have admitted to using poison gas in the past. Whenever they take over and occupy government positions, they take over the chemicals also.

          2. It seems there is a good argument for the “rebelssto have done this particular attack. But in fact no one’s hands are clean if you dig deep — including ours and others over the course of time with aid and intel.

            That’s why it is even more ridiculous that Obama single out this one incident upon which to hang his manhood.

          3. Exactly. I just read somewhere else that the Brits have been selling the chemicals to Syria for years. Not sure if that means the gas itself or the means to make it. I suspect the latter, but why would you even give them that? The hypocrisy all around is dumbfounding.

        2. srdem65 As you may know, our own UN Ambassador Rapunzel thought perhaps with the mere knowledge of the use of chemical weapons Iran and Russia might be appalled and back off. Too much guinness this one.

          Samantha Power, the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, hoped that a team of UN investigators — many of whom, presumably, have a longstanding relationship with Iranian leaders — could write a report that would convince Iran to abandon its ally at the behest of the United States.

          “We worked with the UN to create a group of inspectors and then worked for more than six months to get them access to the country on the logic that perhaps the presence of an investigative team in the country might deter future attacks,” Power said at the Center for American Progress as she made the case for intervening in Syria.

          “Or, if not, at a minimum, we thought perhaps a shared evidentiary base could convince Russia or Iran — itself a victim of Saddam Hussein’s monstrous chemical weapons attacks in 1987-1988 — to cast loose a regime that was gassing it’s people,” she said.

          1. She couldn’t have made a more stupid, clueless statement if she tried harder. The professionals at the State Dept must be banging their heads on their desks that she represents the US.

    2. Susan Rice’s days on the Sunday morning circuit are over and done with. It’s a sad commentary when you can’t put your Chief Security advisor out there.

      So far, I have seen McDonough on 3 shows – State of the Union, THIS WEEK, and MTP. On each show he is asked if Obama will still go it alone if Congress votes ‘no’. McDonough’s ‘feigned outrage’ to the question is hilarious! “I don’t answer ‘if’ questions ; hypotheticals”, he sputtered.
      Even worse, Obama himself refused to answer the same question – twice – in Russia. He was more direct. “I will not answer that question.”
      The stunning spectacle of ineptitude that we are witnessing on a daily basis on national tv is breathtaking! And I’m loving every second of it! Public discourse has changed from should we or should we not bomb Syria to should Obama be impeached. Popcorn sales must be skyrocketing!

    1. What Fox News is doing exiling Judge Jeanine to an hour on the weekend is beyond me. She makes O’Reilly look like a milquetoast, and that’s saying something. Her Opening Statement is appointment television.

      1. I have been wondering the same thing…she was fantastic last night.
        We cut away from our beloved Razorbacks on Pay to View just long enough to hear her opening statement.
        We won our game…Sooie Pig!

      2. Hear, hear. If they want to refresh their daily lineup, she should take O’Reilly’s spot. He’s been around too long, his views are not representative of today’s conservatives, and his self shilling is pathetic.

        1. I’m not a big O Reilly fan, but he does bring it some fence sitters and moderates and it beats their turning to the MSM for information. His viewership and ratings are high and it’s not from conservatives, but then it’s not from loons either. So, I see a place.

          I like JJ a lot.

    2. Thanks for posting. She is so right. Asking all the questions that matter. Will any o the talking heads tomorrow have the courage to ask even one of these questions.

      1. We should all make an effort that this week we won’t let a comment by Obama or his fellow coalition go by where they aren’t
        reminded what 9-11-01 and 9-11-12 mean to we Americans who
        actually care about those dates and those who died. He cannot
        be allowed to hide from Benghazi as far as I’m concerned while
        wanting us to believe him now and send our military to war no way.

    1. FNCs ChrisMatthews asked McDonough why our government couldn’t find the jihadist they blame for the attack at Benghazi when other US news programs not only found him, butt got him to give an interview.
      Of course, there was no answer.

  2. MI Republican Congressman Justin Amash in blasting Obama’s Syria plan also blasted John Boehner and Eric Cantor for automatically giving Obama their support before the Congress had received any reports and before they had notified their House members what they were going to do. How soon can they be replaced?

  3. While we’re on criminal government outrages; the PineBluff Arkansas police shot and killed a 107year old man because he shot through a door when they confronted him. They were afraid of him, they said.
    IMO, all they had to do was wait it out, then the old fellow would have dozed off (as us old fogeys are known to do), and the incident would have been resolved peacefully.
    Shame on them.

    (what a way to go after 107 years. “look at me, mom”.)

    1. I saw that story, srdem. How tragic. There was no need to send in a SWAT team to confront a 107-year-old man. Where was their compassion and empathy for an elderly man who was probably scared to death by their SWAT uniforms and high power weaponry? Not to mention the fact they gassed him and broke down his bedroom door. Humanity is a scare commodity in this new statist government.

      1. According to the article there were no hostages. He was alone in his bedroom when one of the two called the police and said he threatened them with a gun. This is a perfect example of the militarization of the local police.

  4. Kind of shocked that Obama went out and played golf again yesterday. While I don’t begrudge him the right to unwind a bit, it just LOOKS bad in the middle of perhaps the biggest crisis of his preidency.

    Of course, as we’ve seen again and again, he doesn’t really care how his actions look to his “subjects”. He is, after all, the president.

      1. Star, I noticed the lip thing like months ago, he copies Clinton, he must be! Words can’t describe how idiotic he looks when he does that — its so obviously fake, and also his phony way of bopping up and down his limp wrists when he gets off the plane — looks as if he’s self-conscious or he wants to look athletic for the cameras and last week, it looked they really padded his shoulders in his suit, looked very padded and phony (talk about phony scandals, he’s a liar).

    1. Stranger yet is his regular golfing foursome: the travel director, WH chef, and Kerry’s former body man/windsurf shop employee, ex-bartender, golf caddy.

      Water seeks its own level, as the saying goes.

  5. Here we go. sigh
    “China has reportedly sent warships to the coast of Syria to “observe” the actions of US and Russian ships as tensions build in preparation for a potential military strike on Syria which could come as soon as next week.

    According to the Russian news outlet Telegrafist.org, the People’s Liberation Army dispatched the Jinggangshan amphibious dock landing ship and the vessel was seen passing through the Red Sea towards the Suez Canal, the waterway in Egypt that leads to the Mediterranean Sea and waters off the coast of Israel, Lebanon and Syria.”

          1. Needing to wipe the egg off your face is NOT a good reason to start World War III. If he does, the House is GOING to impeach him, ESPECIALLY if they already told him not to go there in the first place.

            If he ever gets tried for war crimes, they’re going to need to rent a football stadium for the trial, and charge admission. Demand will be overwhelming, methinks.

    1. What I find interesting is that in all the commentary,both sides, there is precious little consideration given to the possible responses and consequences to any military intervention.

      Then again, since we have no real military objective or exit strategy…what is there to say.

      And while we dither — much of the military is on alert and stand by — and who cares what that does to them or their families. /sarc/ Not too many of them playing 9 or 18 with their buddies on a balmy weekend day.

      1. In spite of McCain swearing to the contrary that there will never be any boots on the ground, the option is already written into the Senate panel resolution.

  6. Apologies for the long link/s, but all of them are excellent reads, particularly the letter from Assad’s grandfather to France in 1936.

    Will American troops obey their commander in chief if he tries to march them into Syria? *UPDATED*

    One of the more interesting reads @ http://www.bookwormroomblog.com/ asks:

    Does this oath obligate our men and women in the military to follow a crazy president into a suicidal war?

    I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.” (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

    Robert H. Scales, a retired Army major general, is a former commandant of the U.S. Army War College answers the question at the updated link above.

    And from http://www.nicedeb.com/
    The Razor’s Obama’s Leadership Failure is a sharp, well written critique of the record of the current occupant of the White House in terms of recent history.
    The above link takes you to a fascinating letter written by Bashar Assad’s grandfather’s amazing 1936 letter to France.

  7. Got around to MTP–and I didn’t think it was possible, but that McDonough guy frosts me more than Austen Goolsbee. The love child of Dick Tracy and with those sunken eyes, El Diablo. So low energy–I thought he would fall asleep. What is the new thing all about–the assertion that the chem ban protects our troops–I thought no “boots” were marching. Every time I hear that this is such an absolute–I think napalm and Agent Orange…yes, the motives were different, but people are still suffering over that–and I think I heard McD (on Wallace’s show) say the Syrians have used napalm on kids–well, that would not be a first. None of this makes sense–I totally don’t get the “we came we saw we degraded” thing. AND–his argument that no members of Congress have challenged “the intelligence” so that makes it accurate is, well, something a 9th grade debater would laugh at. But–as always–they think we are stupid so they just roll out these dopey arguments.

    1. Also–what was the context of this alleged gassing–well, all of them, the one in the vid is not the first? Does Assad see some Syrians standing around and think I guess I will poison them and watch them suffer? Are they rebels? Are they in a blood feud with his home village? What? One prob with chem weapons is they tend to spread and blow around which limits their use if there is something more targeted and less likely to kill the user. I don’t get this–I can’t visualize it…Can anyone help me.

  8. There is a good whip of votes going on at the FireDogLake site. Very liberal but with us on this issue.* No or leaning no – 246; yes or leaning yes – 61; undecided 128. If this is a simple majority vote by 1, it looks like the nays have it.

    *Obama has finally become a uniter.

    1. Also with all the waving around of that video of suffering people they are pushing (which has been on Fox all week, it’s not new), this would be a war started by a video. Not like the other thing.

      1. Have you seen that photo of all the bodies wrapped in white? Not sure if they’re children. But either Hannity or one of his guests said that that photo comes from Iraq when Saddam Hussein was gassing the Kurds.

    2. “Obama has finally become a uniter.”

      I was thinking the same thing this past week, but never imagined I read this headline from Drudge….

      Syria’s rebels and soldiers agree: military strikes will change nothing

        1. Was it the plan all along? President dithers, procrastinates, evolves between golf games and long walks in the garden. Good grief, we’ve got a hybrid of Chauncey Gardiner and Nathan Thurm in the WH and another very long three and a half years ahead of us.

          “Deferring to Congress to authorize an attack on Syria’s Bashar al-Assad may have been the biggest gamble of Barack Obama’s presidency – and could significantly weaken the presidential office if it backfires, experts and commentators warn in exclusive interviews with Newsmax.”

          Some observers are beginning to suggest the administration’s mishandling of Syria has been so severe, it may affect not only Obama’s presidency, but future presidents’ terms as well.

          http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/obama-syria-miscues-king/2013/09/08/id/524448#ixzz2eLgYdG8w

    1. Shocking it was. He has his pitiful talking points compiled by Obama’s Brain Trust – Valjar, Axe, and Plouffe. I would resign rather than suffer such embarrassment.

      1. That’s what frustrates me too.
        What is it about these hosts.
        Are they afraid of repercussions if they embarrass the guest.?
        Are they told to play nice with the guest ?
        Why not tell the host to get an answer to a question and if the guest refuses, throw them off the set.
        Monday is going to make me puke,…I just know it.
        Obama is going to be everywhere and flooding the airwaves with his bile.
        Somebody please stand up to him and prove what a fool and a charlatan he really is.

  9. As far as I’m concerned, any politician who votes to start WW III by attacking Syria should be tried for treason. There is no way a loyal American could go along with sending our brave military men and women to serve as ‘al Qaeda’s Air Force’. Especially after considering the evidence presented by Yossef Bodansky, a very reputable foreign affairs expert, who questions whether this WH had a hand in planning the gassing of innocent Syrians. Wouldn’t surprise me after everything we’ve learned about his Fast and Furious gun running program. Hundreds of innocent people are still being killed with the weapons he put in the hands of narco-terrorists.

    There is a growing volume of new evidence from numerous sources in the Middle East — mostly affiliated with the Syrian opposition and its sponsors and supporters — which makes a very strong case, based on solid circumstantial evidence, that the August 21, 2013, chemical strike in the Damascus suburbs was indeed a pre-meditated provocation by the Syrian opposition.

    The extent of US foreknowledge of this provocation needs further investigation because available data puts the “horror” of the Barack Obama White House in a different and disturbing light.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/did-the-white-house-help-plan-the-syrian-chemical-attack/5347542

        1. Good analogy with Reichstag fire. I finally had time to read the article. Very interesting that US intelligence supplied them with tons of weaponry in August . I hadn’t been aware of that, but Bodansky makes it sound like a coordinated effort between the opposition and US intelligence: the rebels would strike on the ground the same time Obama was pummeling Syria with Tomahawks. And Bodanksy says that the opposition up in the north is Al Qaeda, the opposite of what Obama’s flunkies are saying here.

    1. Thanks. I printed it out because of the length. Bodansky was one of very few people who knew a lot about Bin Laden when he first started becoming a household name.

    2. WWIII started awhile ago. I personally point to the 1972 Munich Massacre Olympics forty plus years ago. Then the bastards were called the PLO or Black September, today this have other names and still ugly faces. Today it’s not just Jews and Israelis. Anyone here remember, Rabbi Meir Kahane.
      Rabbi Kahane was assassinated by a Muslim terrorist in a Manhattan hotel room in 1990. That Muslim terrorist was El Sayyid Nosair, who was initially tried and acquitted of Kahane’s murder. Nosair was subsequently prosecuted in federal court for his role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and was found guilty of Kahane’s murder as part of a larger conspiracy. Nosair ultimately confessed to Kahane’s murder.
      In 2000, 10 years after Kahane was assassinated, his son Binyamin Ze’ev Kahane and Binyamin’s wife were murdered in Israel by Arab gunmen. Five of their six children were wounded in the attack.

      You want to know what the future holds…know the past. Israelis and Jews have always been the canary in the coal mine. 2013 it’s the Christians in Egypt or Syria. Most of the Christians, who were persecuted in Libya are now living in Syria.

  10. …Once Friday starts I start to to “have a few drinks…” and not care about the ‘World/current events’.
    So what is going on with ‘Dear Leader Obama’ & ‘current events’… Has the world gone to H#ll yet…???
    (Gods-Help-Me, everyday I wake up I kinda hope the World has “gone to H#ll under Obama…)

    1. The World? The US feels like a tinder box to me right now. I keep repeating to myself the mantra I picked up from The Jewel in the Crown: There is nothing I can do, there is nothting I can do . . .

  11. MessersObama and Biden are now smoozing certain Repubs at a dinner held by MrBiden. Things are really getting strange in DC.

    No press is involved, and no one knows for sure who was invited and who showed up.

    1. Ohhhhh.. what could BO offer that the visiting Repubs would accept in exchange for support.. hmmmm. A human sacrifice? Is there anybody left?

    2. Wonder what the going price is for selling out your country’s sovereignty? Corker’s price appears to be back row seats at Preezy’s grand WH galas. Wouldn’t be surprised if the dinner guests receive a copy of their very own NSA rap sheets as party favors. The politicians with something to hide will be the first to suddenly have a change of heart and support the attack on Syria. Kinda like what gen. Petraus did.

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