White House Press Secretary Jay Carney today asserted that the consequences under Obamacare for not having insurance are a penalty and not a tax, disagreeing with the reasoning by the Supreme Court, which upheld Obamacare under the assumption that it is a tax.
Carney made the assertion during briefing conducted today aboard Air Force One. Though he did not say so explicitly, his contention suggests that the White House effectively disagrees with the reasoning of the Supreme Court decision.
Carney explained that the result was a penalty because people have a choice about whether to get insurance, while people don’t have a choice to pay taxes. He said:
It’s a penalty because you have a choice. You don’t have a choice to pay your taxes, right? You have a choice to buy — if you can afford health insurance.
Carney sugested Republicans who call it a tax are “not telling the truth,” even though they would be merely agreeing with the opinion of the Court.
President Obama sold Obamacare as a law that did not raise taxes, repeatedly describing the fee that would be assessed if people do not carry health insurance as a penalty rather than a tax.
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Here we go with the insanity and illogic; to avoid a “penalty” you MUST do something, so if you MUST do something it is a mandate.
The argument goes round and round; you can’t be “taxed” for not doing something, we don’t pay “taxes” on something we don’t do or own, so the Supreme’s decision is flawed and illogical.
It could be that JusticeRoberts meant to throw a monkey-wrench into the whole fiasco so that it would have to be re-done, because otherwise his majority opinion is un-enforceable.
What a mess.
I thought the same thing about Justice Roberts. Unfortunately, we will never know and are stuck with the consequences unless it gets repealed.
The mess started with the passage of this atrocity. Regardless of the subject matter, it is immoral and unconscionable to pass a 2500 page bill which no human on earth can understand, and therefore which no one can predict the results on the populace.
How can you in good conscience approve something for which you cannot possibly understand the full ramifications? The law of unintended consequences derives even in a single, one-sentence decision. Each person who voted for this, and for that matter any multiple-hundred page bill should be expelled from office because of their seared consciences.
It’s going to be a long, hot summer. But I do think Justice Roberts was right, kinda, saying it’s not his problem to fix the stupids, it’s we the peoples responsibility to elect non-Messiahs. I can see November from my porch!
I’m starting to think the same thing. Look at the language where the majority speaks of their role not being to throw out laws that are simply bad policy, how it’s the people’s responsibility to elect leaders that enact good policy, etc.
So it wasn’t a tax before it was butt now it’s not, or is it ?
Call me crazy butt I am rather confused.
Tax – Penalty – same damn thing. The Libs are going to twist and turn in the wind over this one, IF the GOP doesn’t go all girlish, and steps up and beats them over the head with it.
ObamaTax is Obama’s signature piece – his legacy. Let’s let him have it, along with his IRS Gestapo that will have to be unleashed upon the American people in order to collect the ObamaTax. By the time all is said and done he will wish he was still pounding the streets of Chicago as a Community Organizer.
…good thing the “main stream media” will not report it like that…
This whole thing is ridiculous.
Obama is tickled pink that the SC ruled that he lied to the citizens about how ObamaCare does not include a tax increase. WTF??
“Propaganda Sec.” Carney REALLY! makes NO SENSE anymore… (re: Obama is “correct” in everything…)
Why does the “WH press corps” put up with him & his asinine ‘answers’???
Hey Jay….a tax by any other name is still a tax! Repeat after me: ObamaTax, ObamaTax, ObamaTax! If you disagree with the Court’s re-definition…just say ‘no’ and go back to the ‘unconstitutional mandate’. Otherwise, get ready to go out and defend the biggest tax hike in history! Good Luck!
Stop with the wordsmithing Carney Barker. Sheesh…your boss even tweeted what a BFD it was that our new Progressive majority upheld his beloved Obama
careTax. Now he’s all shy and reserved about calling it a tax?How ballsy of the WH to disagree with the rewriting that allowed their unconstitutional bill to survive,
If it’s a “penalty” as Carney says, and not a tax, then the law is unconstitutional.
That’s exactly right. But it most certainly IS a tax because the IRS is going to collect it and enforce it. So Obama can try to twist the fact all he wants. It’s still a tax.
I think he just did what he did to not let anyone walk with a victory using the Supreme Court as the arbiter and ultimate scapegoat. Think about it, this guy is gonna be there for a long time, and he doesn’t want HIS court stained with the Liberal smears and lies and innuendo and so on and so on so he ‘split the baby’ to shut them up and leave room to sabotage it by defining it as a tax.
They swore up and down it wasn’t and so if it is indeed a tax the law was sold and passed under totally false pretenses and it was passed underhandedly anyhow on Christmas Eve, of all the possible “Stick it to the Christian Judeo fans” moves, he just emanates I hate America and everything about it that isn’t ghetto.
Passed on a day when America’s on vacation celebrating Christ our savior and they’re hanging out where they spend most of their time counting the seconds until they can get away from it gallivant around the nation and globe interfering with things that they really have nothing to do with outside their districts just for the paid vacations.
What a weasel.
If ObamaCare was deemed constitutional simply because it was based on a tax, then by the identical reasoning slavery would be constitutional if we were taxed at 100%.
The ruling is not a slippery slope, it is a cliff. This is the government the Founders warned us about.
http://www.zazzle.com/FirstPrinciples?rf=238518351914519699
If it’s not a tax, then it’s unconstitutional. You cannot have your cake and eat it too… Pick one – Tax OR Unconstitutional.
B_I_N_G_O !
They cant have it both ways.
What I dont understand is that the AHCA says , in the bill, that “this new tax is not a tax”………so, the bill needs to be rewritten. Throw this one out !
As soon as the SC said that a penalty is unconstitutional, the discussion should have stopped and the law voided. Then Congress would have to have gone back and passed legislation that involved a tax — Roberts only showed them what had to be done — why is Obamacare being allowed to exist when its language, its “penalty,” has been declared unconstitutional?
The White House can call it a hamburger, but the Supremes have decided what it really is – a tax. All liberals ought to start getting on your knees and praying that Obama doesn’t go down with a 75% loss. The last time a tax was this onerous, Geo. Washington was around and leading troops into battle. Time for another Revolutionary War?
Suddenly, Bill Clinton appeared out of thin air on Air Force One. Once the crowd recovered from this truly amazing feat, Bill went on to say, “Isn’t this a tax? Well, what do you mean by “isn’t”? Dems just love lying outright and expect never to be questioned.
Someone needs to tell Carney that it’s settled law now.
It’s either a tax or it’s unconstitutional. One or the other.
Saint Obama and the entire DemocRAT Party consists of nothing more than a bunch of absolute liars. Each and every one of them should be voted out of office in 2012. They can all go straight to H — L L !
It’s not “A” tax, it’s several taxes and we all got snookered!
Don’t tax on my leg and tell me it’s raining.
But din’t they SCOTUS say it was a tax even sided with the Prez.. So it is a tax … which the Govenment has the right to do.. But do they have the ability to penalize?
The Court ruled out the misuse of the commerce clause and the “necessary and proper” clause as Unconstitutional, but said that it is ONLY Constitutional AS A TAX. However, they did NOT rule on the Constitutionality of the “law” as coming from… The Senate. The law is quite specific… ALL TAX BILLS must originate from The House so that it can be debated and the voters can have their say through their representatives! This is why tax bills cannot originate from the Senate. ObamaTAX originated in the Senate and as such is 100% illegal, invalid, and Unconstitutional on those grounds. However, it cannot be debated until 2014 because one would have to have legal standing to bring a case, and that will not exist until ObamaTAX goes into effect in 2014. At that time, if it has not been repealed by then, it will die a quick death the very first time someone brings up the issue against the IRS in court. It is therefore politically important for all interested parties to repeal ObamaTAX before then. Repeal it before it comes to court and you look like heroes. Let it die in court and you intentionally throw your Ace card of power in the trash.
Sen. Reid took a bill passed in the House, gutted it entirely and then basically inserted the language we now have. So, technically, the ACA is constitutional.
White House —
It’s NOT A TAX!
It’s NOT A TAX!
It’s NOT A TAX!
It’s NOT A TAX!
(oh wait.. we’re losing in arguments in front of the supreme Court)
White House lawyers —
IT’S A TAX!
Supreme Court —
The individual mandate, under the Commerce Clause is unconstitutional.
However.. if it’s a TAX, that’s cool with us.
White House —
It’s NOT A TAX!
Me, if I was emperor of the universe —
Not a tax? OK!
BAM!
ObamaCare is totally thrown out, since the Individual Mandate under the Commerce Clause is unconstitutional!
Happy now?
See, there are only 21 taxes in that bill. The scotus has ruled that a tax is legal and not a mandate. Really strange logic. If it isn’t a “tax” what is it? He says there is a choice when there is no choice but to pay someone for something. You can choose to pay for healthcare insurance or you can choose to pay the IRS. I believe that is a tax.
The end justify the means. if they bring a knife, you bring a g u n ….
sound familiar?
barrack said them all.
Democrats would rather climb a tree and lie, than stand flat footed on the ground and tell the truth.
It is all doublespeak, pure and simple. How come no follow up with a question such as, than you are asserting the Supreme Court was in error upholding the law as a tax? Pin this slime boy down.
Pure Orwellian.
Excuse me Carney Barker? You have a choice to NOT pay taxes….that choice is imprisonment. The choice to not buy your healthcare is a tax right now, and eventually it WILL be prison or death. We get it you idiot!
Go deep into debt to get a house mortage, or pay a tax.
Have children, or pay a tax.
Donate huge amounts to IRS-recognized charities, or pay a tax.
and, now…
buy health insurance, or pay a tax.
You know who else thinks this is a “BFD”?
Walter Mondale. See ya in November, folks.
Income taxes aren’t taxes either. One could donate all money to charity, and there wouldn’t be any tax.
Nonsensical. There is still a tax but it is offset by a deduction.
In real terms, how is it nonsensical? Give all your money to charity, or pay a tax.
You cannot have it both ways. It is either “law” and a “tax” or it is not.
If it is NOT a “tax”, then you have to conclude that the “law” does not stand because they have no power to penalize Americans this way without a trial and a conviction, period.
And here is why this legislation should have NOT been upheld! Obama and his minions were confused for a bit and said it was a tax and then they changed their tune and said it was a penalty. SC has that as a penalty it is not “upholdable” but as a tax it is. By the by…taxes can only be levied by the House…another reason this is bogus and wrong!
And on other aside: with Obama’s classless tweeting “BFD” and now be read “BFT…big…….TAX!!! Obama has broken yet another campaign promise!
OH! And now the DOJ is going to shield Holder? Just go right to the civil courts and nail him!
What a useless regressive administration this has been. Hope I can hold out until he’s gone!
I’ve posed this question on various blog sites and no one has come up with an answer. Is there anything else that the government taxes due to omission?
Sure. How about getting taxed for not having a home mortgage? How about getting taxed for not being married? How about getting taxed for not having children? How about getting taxed for not donating large amounts of your income to charity? How about getting taxed for not paying state property taxes? How about getting taxed for not paying state income taxes?
Need I go on?
If I am not mistaken, I believe the WH lawyers argued in front of the SC that it was a tax.
Unbelievable spin by the WH. Many times disappointing, but never surprising.
Wahoo
If it is not a tax, it is unconstitutional and cannot be implemented. If the administration wants Obamacare, they need to start coming up with a good defense for raising taxes on the middle class during a recession.
It’s not a tax because it is a penalty.
Seems clear to me that Congress needs to go back pass new legislation that has a tax if they want the bill to be consitituitional according to the SC decision.
President Obama, and Jay Carney, have a problem with the truth. That is, they habitually don’t tell it. To wit, President Obama is a liar, and Jay Carney (as a press secretary should be) is an effective toady and must therefore also lie
Well Mr. Carney, you may want to just keep your cakehole shut. SCOTUS blew your commerce clause bullshit out of the water and has ruled that if it is anything other than a tax then it’s unconstitutional. So why then would you want to be on record as saying it’s not a tax?
Fail
Look, all taxes are penalties in the White House’s opinion. I can avoid paying these huge sums to the government every year by not getting a job. Therefore, since the White House says I wouldn’t have a choice if it were a tax, it must be a penalty.
By other reasoning, I could easily spend all of my income on tax deductible expenses and then I wouldn’t have to pay this penalty either. If I make $60,000 and I pay $60,000 to an accountant to file my taxes (a deductible expense) then I would have a $0 tax bill. Therefore, whatever I do pay to the government is really a penalty for not having spent it on tax-deductible expenses.
What a croc. Thanks John Roberts, you are a true American.
Hey! You’re making sense! Now, knock it off!
If it’s Brown ,Stinks and tapered at One end it is Obama and a Tax !
Obama is still trying to make Chicken S**T taste like Chicken Salad .
There is not enough Good Chicken and Mayo in the world to make that possible .
The Problem for Starters ? They used lies and fillers and tried to make it out to be Chicken.
What little respect I had remaining for the obama Presidency just evaporated.
the Republicans will do the same thing that they’ve been doing during the entire reign of Obama: NOTHING. The people have no voice. We are in the grip of tyranny where a ruling elite class of people has stripped us of all our Constitutional and human rights. The USA was formed to escape such oppression, but it is now one of the most evil and afflicted places on earth. Without a revolution NOW, we will be carted into death camps for daring to speak against the criminals that wield power over us.
The Republicans have done much better than DemocRATs passing huge steaming turds into law “so we can find out what’s in it”
Hey… why don’t you have a Tea Party over this? BWAH HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Mmm… can’t wait for my affordable health chicken!
If republicans want to use the tax argument against Obama, then you will have to admit that Romney also increased taxes in MA as Governor when he passed Romneycare that had the same mandated penalty if someone chose not to buy health insurance.
So far Romney has been claiming that as a Governor he never raised taxes to balance budget. That argument will not hold any more.
You can’t have it both ways.
Romneycare only affected the residents of the Soviet Socialist Republic of Massachusetts, numb-nuts. ObamaTax affects all Americans. There’s a slight difference.
Is there a difference in principle when it comes to the question of “tax” or “penalty”?
You have ABSOLUTELY no clue what socialism is.
Even if someone wants to believe “black is white”, and repeats it 100 thousand times, black does not become white. That person is either color-blind or ignorant.
So sayeth the ObamaTax supporter.
Not true, necessarily. A state’s power is not limited by the commerce clause. So it may be ale to regulate more.
Tom- You must admit that if Republicans decide to play the “tax” card, the ruling makes Romney vulnerable. You can’t call the individual mandate a tax and then let Romney off the hook. Romney is now not only the father of Affordable Care, but he is the father of a tax hike. And is a “connector” a “czar”? You will be arguing for a very Obama -like Republican this fall. This is why Romney is the most tight-lipped candidate you have ever run.
Who’s on first?
IT’S AMAZING TO ME HOW THEY ARE TRYING TO SPIN THIS. ROBERTS GAVE US A SMALL VICTORY BY MAKING THEM HAVE IT AS A TAX BECAUSE IT WOULDN’T HAVE GONE THRU AS A PENALTY
Carney explained that the result was a penalty because people have a choice about whether to get insurance, while people don’t have a choice to pay taxes. He said:
t’s a penalty because you have a choice. You don’t have a choice to pay your taxes, right? You have a choice to buy — if you can afford health insurance.
Carney sugested Republicans who call it a tax are “not telling the truth,” even though they would be merely agreeing with the opinion of the Court.
That’s the reason Roberts made it a tax because it’s UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO CHARGE A PENALTY IF WE DON’T BUY A COMMODITY. BIG DIFFERENCE. It’s not a choice if we have to pay a tax for not carrying health insurance.We don’t have a choice it’s either get it or pay the tax
President Obama sold Obamacare as a law that did not raise taxes, repeatedly describing the fee that would be assessed if people do not carry health insurance as a penalty rather than a tax. THEY ARE TRYING TO SAY THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO IMPOSE A PENALTY AND THEY DON’T,hence the change in the individual mandate part of the law
So, Mr. Carney, if it is not a tax, then the Supreme Court decision is not valid, and ObamaCare is not law because the majority opinion read by Chief Justice Roberts stated that that is the only way it is legal. You are still trying to say that the mandate is therefore approved, when in fact, the Court designated the individual mandate un-Constitutional as relates to the commerce clause. Get your act together, or resign, and let someone more competent speak to the American people.
Amen. Thank you for saying this. Why aren’t others saying it? The Supreme Court decision did not support Obamacare. It said that it would be constitutional if the “penalty” was a “tax,” which it was not.
Carney really needs to check himself. A MANDATE is NOT an OPTION – there is no CHOICE in avoiding a penalty other than buying insurance. Either way, it will adversely affect the bottom line of ALL Americans, particularly those that already struggle and currently CHOOSE to take the risk of not having insurance WITHOUT a penalty, but with a MANDATE, that will no longer be a choice because either way they’re faced with a liability. Where do they get these people?
Hey, quit playing dice with the health insurance system and choose to buy some, already! Do you think you’re Thor? You know that the minute you drop your hammer on your toe you’ll be in the emergency room like the rest of us Midgardians!
(I saw Thor recently).
We don’t have health insurance by choice, we don’t make heaps of money, and everytime we have had to go to the doctor or hospital we have paid in cash. Why were we able to do that? Partly because we are not shelling out the 400.00 per month on health insurance that we don’t use and that savings adds up, in addition to living very frugally to be debt free. I see the wisdom and necessity for insurance for many and I feel for those who are in need of affordable health options. But where is the third option for those whose simply don’t want it? We want to opt out for the main reason that we prefer the choice of alternative medicine where applicable and those treatments are not expensive but also not on offer. So, we get to be penalized for not having a prescribed, acceptable version of health care? The logical penalty, then. would be that we cannot come crying to the government when we end up sick and cannot afford to get treated. That is a risk we are more than willing to take, thank you. Here’s a question: if I pay into it, if I don’t use it, will I get reimbursed as I over-paid the TAX?
Should read “those who” instead of “those whose.” How embarrassing…sheesh.
The penalty is not a tax. It’s a tax. And for the record, it’s not a mandate. You just have to do it or be penalized. I mean taxed.
Hey numbnuts, if it wasn’t a tx you would not have had it upheld, the fact is now you have to live with another Obama lie.
Is he ignoring SCOTUS? Has he become an emperor?
This WH had better just OWN the largest Middle Class Tax Increase in American History. If they are going to try and call it something else, it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and we will take it back to court. It is not a Penalty or a Fee. It is a TAX! Get over it.
It it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and smells like a duck, it’s a DUCK!
The SC said yesterday that ACA was only constitutional if it was a tax. Today the WH decides it will be applied in a way that is unconstitutional.
Boy am I glad all them con law types in the WH was edjumacated at Harvard. Otherwise, they might think that they are just citizens of this republic, same as you or me, and that laws actually apply to them too.
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